Jacemora: Color me worried.

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Thursday, December 11, 2008

Color me worried.

As much as I can appreciate what the Devs are doing to Feral tanking and DPS changes with more gear options and the like I can't help but be concerned about the future and how we are going to be perceived socially after the change.

In BC we were for the most part regulated to OT status, more or less a redheaded stepchild of tanking and DPS. Of course this was mostly perception as many druids proved they could MT and DPS with the best, but perception more or less still dictated our involvement on the end game raiding level.

Now in Wrath we get a Quasi AoE ability and fights were made so that we no longer have attacks coming from bosses that we cannot defend. So here we are wide open to start filling MT roles right?

Well I don't know... realistically most guilds already have warriors entrenched as MT's and Pallies still thought of as the AoE adds specialist. It more or less leaves as the OT/DPS role we are used to... which is fine with me by the way however...

Before we would go to a raid and at least where weapons were concerned we had our feral staff to get and that was it. Now we are going to possibly want a nice 2H or 1H tanking mace that most guilds are going to naturally assume will go to the MT or even Pally adds tank before a feral druid even having a shot. Irregardless if the mace is better than whatever feral staff that drops I doubt seriously the guild would be happy if you out DKP the MT for an Epic mace. So are we really getting anything? The same thing is going to apply for trinkets or necks that include something like block or parry if they end up giving bears that mechanic as well.

I guess if you happen to be your guilds established MT it just means you have a shot at getting geared up faster, however if you tend to be OT/DPS or 3rd Tank/DPS option do you really see having this gear sharing as a positive? I know I don't and I will be surprised if I don't get at least a little hostility the first time I want to roll on that DPS Epic leather the rogues are drolling over or the Mace the warriors specifically have been waiting multiple runs for. I don't see how I am going to get a rogue to believe those leather shoulders are a big tanking upgrade and that I am not trying to steal DPS gear from them like the old days.

Bottom line is you have to questions how much of the social part of the game the Devs understand. Sure, before we might have had to wait a long time for an upgrade or farm a certain area or location for weeks for a certain peice of gear but after years of not competing with other tanks for drops and being thought of a 2nd or 3rd option for tanking most fights do you really see this change being welcomed with open arms?

I guess only time will tell.


Jason said...

Jace... you wouldn't roll for a tanking mace from a warrior or pally. They are one handed and loaded with Defense. We need no defense, and we don't get a shield for the other slot, and there are no good tanking (or DPS for that matter) offhanders unless its a dualwield weapon, which we cannot do.

We will be able to choose some 2 handed weapons that Retadins and Arms warriors are relegated to though, which will be nice. But in no way will you be taking a tanking mace from a pally or a warr.

Anonymous said...

Sorry to hear you're worried. I'm very happy about these changes. Our guild has a great GM, RLs and a solid tanking core (mostly over 25) The role of MT for one player has disappeared, although I understand why it persists in the community... it will take time.

We each tank fights appropriate to our class where there's an obvious choice (eg druids for patchwerk). But more than that, we try to ensure all of our tanks get a fair go to tank trash and bosses, and get to come to fights where they need the loot from the boss.

I dont think there's any way we'll let a hunter bid on a staff if the feral druid needs it for an upgrade - doubly so if its got armor on it. What this does is allow other classes to use these weapons if we do not - which has to be good.

If you have MT/OT politiking going on in your guild, or you feel you're treated like a third grade jack of all trade, then you should talk to your officers about it. The days of raiding at lvl60 with macho prot warriors ruling the roost are long over, thank god (but you know that right?!)

As for leather "belonging" to rogues: if your leadership persists in that view, then you should speak to them too.

Jacemora said...

Honestly my thoughts are more social generalizations than what is going on with me personally... my guild is really cool and I don't happen to be over concerned about gear either way, but I am in 3 different guilds with alts so I hear and see quite a bit of stuff.

Jason. I have not done a ton of research on the high level 1H maces for tanking but it would not surprise me if there could be a 1H and offhand combo that could be an upgrade from let say the Trickery staff especially after the 3.0.4 patch or even a side grade for someone that never had the Trickery staff fall.

Anon brought up a good point about telling a hunter no to a staff that would be an upgrade for a feral, but this would also work the other way with a ret pally or warrior telling the feral no to a 2H mace.

Again, I think the old perception of gear will override the change and you won't see many kitties running around with 2H maces.

Anonymous said...

Well, we'll make sure all affected classes are aware of these changes in advance, and then loot is assigned via dkp bidding, based upon agreed lists of who has main spec bidding rights on the items. We all agree this in advance on our forum website. So a druid can easily take a 2H mace from a warrior if they bid more dkp, and we've agreed that its a viable upgrade for both classes. Same with feral staffs going to hunters: we'll have to agree it all in advance.

When you talk about how gear is perceived, I was making a distinction between the officers/GM in your guild, and the everyday 15 year old rogue who lusts after gear the way he lusts after titties (pardon my language). ie what matters is your leadership, not the perceptions of every player in the guild.

You're right though when you say you see a lot with your alts. A lot of guilds are run by those 15 year old titty lovers. In those cases, you may get a lot of drama and immature prejudice with this change. But I have nothing to do with players like that.

Jacemora said...

I dunno, I have seen adult gear drama as well.

I think it all comes down to utility envy.


Hana said...

I doubt there would be a problem. As Jason brought up, bears aren't interested in gear with defense rating, which already eliminates much of the gear conflict with warriors and paladin. We can't dual wield so even if there was a great tanking one-hander, loaded with stam/dodge/expertise and no defense, we'd have to find an off-hand that will have similar stats. But non-weapon off-hands are entirely caster item at the raid level.